The Sticking Point Ep 177

ep177-the-sticking-point

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[00:00:00] chrissy neumyer smith: Episode 1 77 of the podcast, the sticking point. This week we'll talk about where you may be getting stuck. So you're trying to help these dogs be calm, comfortable, and cooperative, but it doesn't seem to be working the way that you hoped you could be making this very common mistake. This is the Creating Great Grooming Dog Show.

[00:00:22] I'm Chrissy Nemeyer Smith. I'm a master groomer behavior specialist, a certified professional groomer, a certified behavior consultant for canines, a certified professional dog trainer, an instructor at Hueck Grooming Academy, and the owner of Happy Critters in Nashua, New Hampshire. And this my friends and colleagues, is the show where grooming and training needs.

[00:00:41] For more information, you can go to Creating Great Grooming dogs.com. This sticking point comes up over and over and over again, and there are a couple of different versions, but let's start off with like when I'm working with people live now, that could be a Zoom call with a groomer. Because when groomers have their dog on the table, we can do private lessons that way.

[00:01:05] And when we're doing a Zoom call, they're working with that dog. It could be an owner also with a Zoom call working with their own dog's. Medical needs or grooming needs. The cooperative care part. Cooperative care. So cooperative care is what dog trainers refer to when we're talking about teaching dogs to be good for grooming and vet visits and all sorts of types of care.

[00:01:27] Groomers, we tend to call it holistic grooming. These two fields just need to talk more. Uh, but I might be working with an owner for their own dog's grooming needs. Maybe their dog hasn't been good for grooming or their dog doesn't feel comfortable with them drying their paws, doing medication, whatever it is.

[00:01:44] It could be when I'm working with another dog pro. Just talking about how we're going to teach this dog about handling and grooming. So when I'm in person with people, let me tell you what they have trouble with. They're interested in making progress. They're ready, and they're willing to help. They're actually working with me, and this is the sticking point.

[00:02:04] They're trying to do it as if they're only trying to get that task done. Here's one of the sticking points. So if we're fixated on, I need to get eye medication in this dog's eye, if that's what we are trying to get accomplished, one of the sticking points is that I see a lot of owners and medical staff trying to just work on that, but sometimes we need to step back.

[00:02:31] Sometimes it's not about the eye medication. Sometimes this dog is worried about people reaching. This dog isn't even comfortable with being touched. This dog doesn't want you to reach for their head. This dog doesn't wanna be touched anywhere on their body, and yet we have this need to do an eye medication, but we're not addressing the bigger issue.

[00:02:52] The much bigger issue, which is that this dog isn't comfortable with a whole lot of other stuff. Maybe this dog isn't comfortable with strangers. Maybe this dog is new to a new home and they aren't even comfortable with their owners yet. We need to circle back and think about calm, comfortable, and cooperative, but also referring back to a previous episode.

[00:03:15] But if we're going to use calm, comfortable, and cooperative as our goal. What we're trying to teach this dog to be and to do for us. Then we can also step back and say, all right, how do we make that work? We start with calm, groom smart. Anybody remember? Groom smart? We're gonna go over it again. The S in Groom Smart is to start.

[00:03:36] Calm, comfortable, and cooperative. Start with the three C's. The M in SMART is to maintain the three C's. The A in groom SMART is to act the three C's. Act calm. Be calm yourself. Be comfortable with what you doing. Cooperate with the dog. 'cause cooperation is different than. The, we have to meet halfway.

[00:04:00] That's not just obedience, that's cooperation. We have to act calm. If the dog gets worried, we have to return to calm, comfortable, and cooperative. And then finally, we have to be teaching calm, comfortable, and cooperative. So when we are fixated on, I've gotta get this eye medication in, and we totally forget that the dog is uncomfortable with all these other things.

[00:04:23] We're not starting with comfortable. And it feels like, oh my gosh. Are you telling me I have to have this dog be comfortable with being touched? We're never gonna get there, and I feel you. I do. But what we need to do is circle back and say, where was this dog comfortable? If this dog is not comfortable with even getting touched at home, they are not gonna be good in the grooming.

[00:04:48] That's just not rational. That's not gonna make sense. We need to think about, this dog needs to be comfortable with being touched. As another example, we tend to fixate on its nail trimming. And groomers. Oh gosh, yeah. We do this a lot. Uh, I say we, I have been there. We are trying to get nail trimming done.

[00:05:07] And therefore, if nail trimming is a problem, then we assume it's about the nail. We assume it's about the nail trimming. Yet I ask you how often when a dog is calm, when they're calm, comfortable, cooperative, and you trim off that little piece of their nail, how often are they just like, meh. Because it's usually not all about the nail trimming.

[00:05:31] It's about the way we are holding. It's about if we had to reach over or reach under, or like their past experiences with how nails, nail trims have gone in the past. It's about which direction maybe we're doing it. A lot of dogs have preferences for nail trimming or nail grinding. And sometimes those preferences would surprise you.

[00:05:50] I think that it's kind of surprising for people that some dogs prefer grinding and other dogs prefer trimming. And I kind of don't care because if I'm using a nail trimmer and people are like, well, I want, I, I don't want the sharp edges, like, yeah, you just. Use your nail trior and nibble at the edges until they're fairly smooth.

[00:06:10] Maybe go back with a file or something. But you can do a fairly smooth nail with nail trimmers. If we have a dog who's calm, if we have a dog who's comfortable with what we're doing and cooperating with us, but if we assume it's about the nail trimming, we might miss other things that are happening too.

[00:06:30] Maybe this dog isn't comfortable with being on a table. Maybe this dog isn't comfortable with you as a human, as an individual who is working on them right now. So, backtrack, backtrack further, and this is a really common sticking point because especially owners, when we send owners home and we're like, you know, he's just not good for this.

[00:06:50] And, um, I'm, I don't mean to throw anybody under the bus. But I'm gonna say one of the things that I keep hearing over and over and over again is you could use an electric toothbrush or a beard trimmer to get 'em used to the vibration and the sound. And on the surface that sounds really, really good.

[00:07:06] Accept that. What if it's not the vibration and the sound that the dog is worried about? And what if we're sending owners home with no criteria to look for, and they're actually just harassing their dogs with vibration and sound? And making it worse because the idea is that like, well, we just gotta do this.

[00:07:26] So they just go at the problem, go at the problem in behavior. We don't wanna just go at the direct problem. Right. Okay. I know, um, it's really tempting to think like, oh, well we have to start where It's interesting start where we notice the dog really making a dramatic response if we're doing it right.

[00:07:48] We're starting with a dog who is calm. We're starting with a dog who is comfortable with us in that moment in cooperating with us and gradually building up to the thing that they're not comfortable with, so we can gradually build up to what they're not comfortable with. I am going to give you an example.

[00:08:06] I worked with a dog for, oh gosh, the last couple years of her life, and when I first met her. Any sort of touching near her shoulder was enough for her to think like, oh, they're coming from my feet. I can't just work on the feet. If, if she's nervous when I'm up at her shoulder, that is significantly different than just working on feet.

[00:08:29] I need to work up there at the shoulder. I need to help her understand that. Like, Hey, listen, I need you to be comfortable up here. I need you not just at your shoulder. If that's the point where you tense up, then you need to be comfortable with me up near your back, you know, up on your hip. Where was the point you were comfortable and can I expand on that?

[00:08:47] Build on that. And make you more comfortable as I work down your shoulder, work down your for leg. And I think that it's so common for us to think it's the nail trimming problem because that's the job we're trying to get done. That is a big, big sticking point. It's a huge sticking point. And as groomers sometimes we're like, well, you know, but that's the part that, that we're having problems with and everything else is fine.

[00:09:14] If that's the case, then everything else being fine can be really good place to look at and go, all right, is it really fine? And then if it is, where do we distinctly see a difference? Where do we see the behavior change? Where do we see the discomfort start? Is it when I pick up nail clippers? That might be an animal who has decided nail clippers are really, really scary because that has been associated with a scary process.

[00:09:43] We can change their mind about nail clippers. We can create a new conditioned emotional response to nail clippers. Nail clippers appear, cookies happen, nail clippers, appear. Cookies happen. We can change the way they feel about that object, as an example. Okay? I know that sometimes we don't have time for that in grooming, but not everything is gonna be solved in grooming, on the grooming table during a trim, okay?

[00:10:06] We need to remind our owners that they can work on some of these things. I keep hearing, but there's no trainer nearby and I don't know who to send them to. You can send them to me. I do this Zoom call. We have these things in our pockets. These phones we can set up wherever. But to help owners understand that they are not going to just learn to be good for grooming only during grooming, and I think that groomers forget that there's a lot of homework that we can send owners home with.

[00:10:38] Yeah, they want their dogs to be good for it. They might not know they do, but when we can explain to them that this is important and it's for your dog's wellbeing and it's going to help your dog be better for grooming for their entire life. For their entire lifespan. That is so important. That is so necessary, and for us to help them understand why we need to do that and that it's not necessarily all gonna happen during grooming.

[00:11:08] If you are a groomer and you don't want to do dog training, that is okay. Just that we need to be able to send them to someone who does. We need to be able to help them find the resources they need because, yeah, I mean, my hairdresser doesn't have to know how to talk a teenager through their homework.

[00:11:27] That's not the hairdresser's job. I encourage you, of course, to know more about behavior and to want to learn it, but you don't have to. Just, I please ask you to keep in mind that we need to help them find the information they need. That could be a vet visit, that could be a dog trainer, that could be a behavior consultant, that could be homework that they, that you know how to give them.

[00:11:49] We need to help them find their solutions. But that's a real big sticking point, is this idea that, you know, well, it's, it's this particular task. So that's what we're gonna go at. We're gonna get up next to his eyeball with the medication. We had to fight to get there, but now we're gonna work on it here at the eyeball.

[00:12:06] Or, uh, he doesn't like having his tail lifted, so that's the fight. That's what we have to work on. But why doesn't he like having his tail lifted? We need to ask why, and we need to backtrack to the point they were comfortable and build comfort from there. In the next part, we're gonna talk about a second sticking point that I see pretty often.

[00:12:25] I've had a number of people say that they wanna support the show. If you would like to support the show, you can go to creating great grooming dogs.com and take a look at the Buy me a coffee link because if you wanna support the show, I'm not gonna stop you, right? Uh, hopefully you're enjoying the show.

[00:12:40] Share it with everybody and follow or subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts. You can also find the show on YouTube. The second sticking point that I find, and this one's more with dog groomers, but it's important to know if you're a dog owner or if you are a veterinarian or a vet tech or anybody else who's working with dogs.

[00:12:59] Sometimes we have in our head that we do things in a specific order. This one is a very calm and sticking point. As groomers specifically, we usually are taught to do things in a specific order because it makes us much more efficient as groomers. Then a lot of things you don't have to think much about it.

[00:13:20] I do. Left front foot first, right front foot, second. Back foot and go through your process. I do nails at this stage, this stage, this stage, this stage. You know, like whatever process you have because when you do it the same way every time, it makes you very efficient. It means you're not as likely to forget something and it really builds your skill and your speed.

[00:13:44] Keeping in mind, dog groomers, we're here to make money. We wanna be speedy, but here's the sticking point. When we have a behavior case, we need to be willing to change that up. We need to be willing to step back from what we thought we usually do, because right now in that behavior case moment, it's not about us being efficient.

[00:14:11] It's about us efficiently teaching the dog that this is safe and that they can trust us. That's a significant difference. So let me give you an example as a pretty common example, I think that we as groomers tend to do everything in order and maybe we trim the head next to last. Right, like head trimming.

[00:14:32] This is when we do it. And the sticking point is if dogs are worried about having their head trimmed and you've already done all of the easy stuff, the stuff that this dog isn't worried about, now you are locked into head trim battle. Right. Even if you're trying to help them be calm and be comfortable and be cooperative, you are now locked into, this is the last 10 minutes of this groom, and now I need to do it in one big step because that's my process and that's the way I do things.

[00:15:02] And now I've left the hardest. For this dog, the hardest challenge for this individual, if that's what they're worried about as the last thing. So let's think about the grooming process. Some of our dogs have very limited amount of patience, so we, if we wait till the very end for something that they find really difficult, they have far less patients than they had earlier in the process.

[00:15:27] Right that last couple of minutes and they're like, oh my God, are we there yet? They are already having trouble. And then we decide now I need to do the head, and now it's a complete the head. Or he goes home, not completed. Now we've set ourselves up to fail. We've set the dog up to fail because we're still thinking in terms of this is my process.

[00:15:51] So let me present to you the idea that if we know some dog has an issue with something. Okay. If we know ahead of time this dog has trouble with this particular thing, let's go back to the head example. Maybe this dog has real trouble with clippers anywhere near their head, or scissors near their eyes, or scissors anywhere near their face.

[00:16:12] Maybe that's their whole issue. Let's just talk the head, okay? If we know that that's something they have an issue with, we need to circle back to it over and over and over again. Do it in smaller little bites. Find out what they're comfortable with and do it in small little pieces, and then gradually circle back, circle back, circle back.

[00:16:33] Which also means we need to know what this dog is comfortable with. The opposite. We need to know what they have trouble with and we need to know what they're comfortable with. When we know what they are comfortable with, then what we can do is not do all of the comfortable stuff in one fell swoop. Now, let me tell you why.

[00:16:51] If we have a dog who is, let's say again, nervous about their head, I usually start off my grooming with kind of just touching around their head. Help them be calm, comfortable, cooperative, start with calm, comfortable, and cooperative. Groom smart. We're gonna start with that calm, but I'm gonna start just touching their head.

[00:17:12] Get a feel for how they are for that. Can I keep this dog comfortable while I'm doing that? Keep them comfortable. While maybe I place scissors, maybe I'm just placing scissors, just placing the shears near them. Maybe I'm just going through the motions with a brush or a comb and see if I can have them be comfortable and then circle back to something else they do feel comfortable with.

[00:17:32] Do it in smaller bits. Itty bitty tiny. It's, and then you can go back and circle back and circle back like, oh, I touched around your eye. Now I'm gonna go back to brushing your hip. And I touched around your other eye. Now I'm gonna go back to brushing near your belly places that this dog is fine with.

[00:17:50] You are going to have a whole lot of stuff that you need to get done, unless it's a walk-in nail trim where you really are literally just doing nails. There are so many things that need to be done. I want you to consider backtracking from the idea that I need to do things in order so that you can spend more time doing little itty bit bits and circling back, and circling back and circling back instead of this relentless.

[00:18:17] It's head time. It's head time, and we're just going to continue here on your head and I'm gonna try to talk you through it. But a dog who's overwhelmed. That's not maintaining calm. We're actually creating a response that we don't want. The dog is now like, oh my God, she just doesn't back off, you know?

[00:18:36] And we can actually derail all of the good efforts we did in the beginning by taking it too far at the end. I'm gonna give you an example here. I think most of us can relate to this. Let's say, you know, you're talking to a sibling on the phone, whatever, sibling, family member, and you're having a really nice talk, blah, blah, blah, and suddenly some old argument comes up, some old argument, and you end that on that note, right?

[00:19:03] That whole conversation is now like, Ooh, I hate that, and I want you to think about that. I think we can all relate to that. We all have some family member or something like they just pressing your buttons or you're pressing their buttons and you're just getting aggravated with each other, and the phone call ends on you being aggravated.

[00:19:22] And if it does it all the time, what do you start thinking? Oh my God, my mom's trying to call me. Oh, no, not this again. So when we start thinking that last bit is always where it goes wrong, we've actually created a feeling about the entire process. So for instance, again, if this is a dog who's worried about having their head done, we can keep circling back.

[00:19:49] Circling back, do it in smaller pieces. Don't wait till the end. I don't wanna hear, well, this is when I do heads, that's not going to help this dog feel more comfortable. So for example, when I know a dog is having problems with having their head done, I start there with the most basic of things. I circle back a lot.

[00:20:12] I often do some scissoring when they're wet in the tub. Because a lot of dogs will let you do more scissoring, wet in the tub. Just be very, very careful groomers. If you are doing that, make sure that you know that when it dries, it's gonna look a lot shorter. So much. Like if we're like doing bangs or something on ourselves, like, yeah, don't pull it down wet and trim way up here.

[00:20:34] You know, be thinking about that. But you can get the corner of their eyes sometimes when they're wet, sometimes wet in the tub. I have a couple theories about it. I think that it's because their skin is more supple and all those whiskers aren't being pulled on the same way. It's my thought anyway, tends to work.

[00:20:51] So I do some of that trimming in the tub if they'll let me, I do some of that like toweling off in the tub if they let me, I work with some of my tools, just placing them. While they're in the tub, why not? When I get them on the table while we're going through the drying process, maybe they're fine for drying their head and it's only the scissors that they're worried about, or combs that they're worried about, or clippers that they're worried about.

[00:21:15] I'll just keep circling back. Maybe I'm putting the clippers near them when I don't plan on clipping. 'cause I'm not gonna clip their head wet. I'm just bringing the clippers over and taking 'em away again and working on something else and over and taking 'em away again and working on something else.

[00:21:30] Because I want them to be comfortable with the smaller bits, the smaller parts. That is a big sticking point. We tend to think it's time to do nails. And get all four feet done in one fell swoop and hope that at the end we were able to maintain calm, comfortable, and cooperative. And that's not the most efficient use of our time.

[00:21:53] If we have this dog already, we just need to keep circling back. It'll feel like chaos the first couple times you do it. And what I do when I'm doing something like that, well now I, I do it so often that I'm pretty good at remembering, but I don't mind having a notebook on next to me and just write down what I did.

[00:22:12] Like, ah, did front nails, haven't done back nails yet. Just like a little list for myself so I remember what still needs to be done. If I'm circling, circling, circling, circling. Okay. But. If we can help this dog be more comfortable in small little bits, small pieces, and then they can learn to be comfortable with bigger pieces.

[00:22:34] That's how we put it all together. Later, they're gonna feel more comfortable with the larger portion, with the longer duration, with that tool being close to their eye longer, and eventually work up to this whole thing. Doesn't bother me at all. That's the hope anyway. Right? I think healthy dogs can be taught to be safe and cooperative.

[00:22:55] Okay. Sometimes there are health problems that will always make it a little bit challenging for them. I mean, think about some of our dogs that have problems with the folds around their eye and they are always going to be a little bit sore. Some of our dogs are gonna have problems. But if we work on it and build it slowly and help them understand that like, oh, this isn't so bad.

[00:23:15] Now, another thing that happens, and I know this podcast is running a little long, the other thing that happens when we do it this way is we are adding more repetitions in just one grooming session. Now we learn through repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition, and if we add a whole bunch of face touching repetitions and tool usage, repetitions, even if it's not complete, the head as one repetition, right as one thing.

[00:23:48] If we are using a whole bunch of like close with the scissors, away with the scissors close, with the comb away, with the comb, lots of repetitions in one grooming session, we have made progress. More than if we had adjust done just the head. We're gonna complete the head in the head step of our grooming process, complete the head right, which often fails because we know that this dog has issues with that.

[00:24:12] So, circling back, doing smaller portions and working on something else that the dog likes, giving a dog a break doesn't mean that you have to take them off of the table. It could be. Now we go back to something that you're comfortable with, and then we go back to the thing that you find challenging, and then we go back to the thing you're comfortable with and we go back to the thing you find challenging.

[00:24:32] We go back to the thing you're comfortable with and circling back. Circling back each of those repetitions. If we play our cards right. It goes successfully. Each of those repetitions builds this feeling of like, that wasn't so bad, interesting. And we still have to get the head done. We still have all those other things to do too.

[00:24:52] So those are two sticking points. One of the sticking points being not really recognizing when the dog is worried. When they start feeling like it's just the nail trim, when really this dog isn't comfortable with us even touching their leg, it's not the nail trim. If you're not comfortable having your leg touched, you are certainly not gonna be comfortable with having your nails trimmed.

[00:25:15] So think about it that way. And then that second sticking point is that when we start thinking that I have to get things done in the order, I've always done it. Or we don't notice that we do things in a particular order and maybe we leave that hardest thing for last, and now we are stuck with no ability to circle back and circle around.

[00:25:37] So these are some of the sticking points, and hopefully that was helpful for you guys. If you're enjoying the podcast, please remember, subscribe, follow. If you'd like more information, creating great grooming dogs.com. You can also find me at Whole Pet Grooming Academy whole pet nh.com, where I teach the Master Groomer Behavior Specialist course.

[00:25:59] And Chris Barry, Anthony and I have started doing a house call course. So if you're interested in house call grooming, you can find that there too.